21stCenturyFix.org

This is an unspoken reality? I think the various o...

2012-02-16T12:01:15.902Z

This is an unspoken reality? I think the various occupy movements are making a start..
I think all the movements share similar wants, but the libertarians/tea-partying anti=Statists (funded by the Koch brothers etc) are keen to get in on the act, but as you mentioned in a previous post, it is really only nation states that can take this fight to Big Capitalism, and have a chance of winning.
As you quote from that piece:
"The global financial crisis has shattered [the myth that nation-states are irrelevant]. Who bailed out the banks, pumped in the liquidity, engaged in fiscal stimulus, and provided the safety nets for the unemployed to thwart an escalating catastrophe? Who is re-writing the rules on financial-market supervision and regulation to prevent another occurrence? Who gets the lion’s share of the blame for everything that goes wrong? The answer is always the same: national governments."
We *need* 'Courageous States'.
Won't be welcome news to anarchists though, perhaps.

So perhaps we need a worldwide organisation which ...

2012-02-16T09:23:10.003Z

So perhaps we need a worldwide organisation which draws up a manifesto and plan of action for nation-states which are interested in empowering their own peoples before the corporates and other self-interested globalising forces?

I know we are meant to like 'The International...

2012-02-15T18:31:49.611Z

I know we are meant to like 'The Internationale', but please.. ;)
Great post Mil; this is indeed the point: Transnational Corporations operate where they can make the most money exploiting local conditions, regulations (or lack thereof.)
The various occupy movements worldwide (OK 'in the western world') prove perfectly what you are talking about.
Big Capitalism is more than happy for nations to fight amongst themselves.
In fact, it is usually rather lucrative.
The arms industry 'banks on it'.

2012-02-15T08:26:23.561Z

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2012-02-15T07:57:27.346Z

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Hi Matt - sorry for the late response. I did writ...

2012-02-11T19:00:40.180Z

Hi Matt - sorry for the late response. I did write a follow-up post on the subject soon after; don't know if you read it:

http://www.21stcenturyfix.org/2012/02/big-agreement-or-dealing-with-big-state.html

And today I've posted on the subject of big vs small itself. Again, you may find it worth a read:

http://www.21stcenturyfix.org/2012/02/can-anything-big-behave-as-if-it-were.html

Many thanks for your contributions, anyhow. They're much valued - and have informed my own opinions.

Just clicked through to it now - seems to work OK....

2012-02-06T17:49:19.615Z

Just clicked through to it now - seems to work OK.

Bankia is also included, by the way - which is more than a caja though perhaps less than a bank. And I'm not sure the Catalan "La Caixa" (not as far as I know in receipt of public funds but still a caja) would be happy to be described as less than a Barclays!!!

But, overall, it *is* a start. And from a curious source. I really expected the PP to follow Cameron's course. But it seems that perhaps they might not in the end.

That one published itself before I was finished!

2012-02-06T17:44:46.886Z

That one published itself before I was finished!

The link to Daniel's post doesn't work, wh...

2012-02-06T17:43:31.933Z

The link to Daniel's post doesn't work, which is shame because I might take issue with blaming the entire middle class. The housing bubble is a bit like a pyramid scheme. Some people win but eventually there are victims. Do we blame the winners? Sometimes there is no evil mastermind, just a system no-one has thought to control.

Bank failure is different. There is a clear case of negligence, even if many just followed the herd. They really should have known better.

I like the news from Spain. But it only applies to the cajas, which are not really thequivalent of Barkleys or Lloyds

You are talking to the converted, not preaching....

2012-02-05T21:12:17.029Z

You are *talking* to the converted, not preaching. And it does need saying, over and over again.

I think we could look beyond that though: to an age where "Big Capitalism" could be eliminated as a feature of our civilisation. Would a "Big State" then be necessary? I wonder if the one is a reflection of the other - and now it's impossible to unravel which caused which. All we do know is that monolithic behaviours, even where understandable, are unresponsive and inappropriate for most of us.

Big Capitalism must accept that the State has a ro...

2012-02-05T21:06:57.151Z

Big Capitalism must accept that the State has a role to play; as Richard Murphy notes, markets only have a State's law to ensure the rights of both parties in trades that take place; this makes them legitimate.

Also has a role in growing and educating the next generation of workers.

Sorry if that sounds too "inhuman" but that is the role the State plays for Big Capitalists' bottom-line. (I'm trying to "market" the State to these .. "people".)

The Welfare State also plays a similar function in alleviating the hardships that (inevitable) market failures create.

Sorry, I'm preaching to the converted probably, just needs saying :)

It's interesting you should mention the divisi...

2012-02-05T17:19:26.972Z

It's interesting you should mention the division of national debt. I'd be inclined to believe where there was evidence of a profligate drive towards increasing national debt prior to any moves to independence, the share might arguably not be so simple to arrive at. Certainly, the current economic crisis, exacerbated by the Coalition, makes it easier for opponents of for example Scottish independence to argue it would not be sustainable. In that sense, such opponents have every interest in increasing such national debt over the next few years.

In relation to your second paragraph, I also think I agree - at least for the moment - that each component nation of the current UK should make up its own mind on the basis of its existing population. The question should not be interdependent on each population signing up simultaneously to the changes proposed.

As I have argued consistently on these pages, a Westminster bubble serves no one but London and perhaps some of the south-east well. An independent England would hopefully help correct that bias, once and for all. Especially if England's parliament were *not* to be in our current capital city.

It is clear to me that the UK is an out of date co...

2012-02-05T14:33:00.384Z

It is clear to me that the UK is an out of date concept and that it is time to rethink the whole thing.
I'm English and I'm in favour of a fully independent England, in or out of the EU depending on the wishes of the people of England. Scotland Wales and N.Ireland must make their own decisions but I want them to me made without England.
As for Cornwall. Surely, if the people of Cornwall want to distance themselves from England and become a 'stateless' nation that should be their decision? I'm notsure why Cornwall would be stateless. Why wouldn't it just be the nation of Cornwall? If Cornwall wanted to form an alliance with others that is their decision. Again, an independent England should not be involved other than for the intial independence negotiations over share of the national debt, border and passport control/immigration controls for the border between England and Cornwall. If Cornwall remained in the EU and England did likewise that should not be a problem. If England decided to leave the EU then there would need to be stricter controls as with any other foreign nation.

Hi cornubian - Blogger defined that comment as spa...

2012-02-05T11:58:03.463Z

Hi cornubian - Blogger defined that comment as spam, I'm afraid, which is why it didn't come up immediately. Many apologies for that.

Yes, the issue you raise is the challenge for all overarching identities: how to define and not exclude; how to structure and not constrict. I'm not sure the European model, which I *am* sympathetic to (I lived in Spain for sixteen years and am half-Croatian), is currently firing on all four cylinders though. Europe still has to demonstrate it can be big and devolved at the same time.

I think I agree with you on many points, although ...

2012-02-05T10:16:27.632Z

I think I agree with you on many points, although I'd be more comfortable with the at the same time approach that you mention. I agree with you that big capitalism needs to be dealt with and that there are things that big companies are able to do through their power that are very harmful to society and that often they collaborate to have these effects.

I also think it's true that some of the problems with the big state might be mitigated by dealing with big capitalism, as sometimes it is a fact that companies are able to use the big state to their advantage - copyright issues fit into this category I think - and if you dealt with big capitalism then this would not be as much of a problem. I'm not convinced that all of the problems of the big state are of this nature however and I think I would say that I lean the other way on the point about perfect economic and political models. I think that in the imperfect world I'm less able to see the big state as the solution because of all the damage it can do when used the wrong way.

The 'big agreement' idea I like, my thought is that in many ways we want a state that is big enough and centralised enough to effectively deal with big capitalism but that is not so big and centralised that it pigeon-holes people, is inflexible and causes more problems for many people than it solves. I think it is obvious that this is a difficult balance to achieve, a fleshed out idea of a 'big agreement' could be a starting point for something like this. In my view I would like to see equal effort applied to dealing with big capitalism and the problems of a big centralised and inflexible state, which is what I think we have in the UK.

Now, it is not necessarily the case that a big state must run in the way I describe, I spent a few years living in Sweden where they do a much better job of running the big state. Often they take a more collaborative and flexible approach to policy implementation where we tend towards legislative one size fits all approaches. Also, in many ways, despite being bigger, their state is a lot less centralised. As an aside their drugs policy is still awful, but its harm is mitigated somewhat more by a better benefits system. I suppose the sense that I am trying to get across is that my issue is not so much with the big state as such but with the centralised inflexible state that seems to be intertwined with the big state in the UK, I think that for the big state to be on the table as a viable option in the UK these problems need to be addressed; I don't feel enough of them will simply fall away as big capitalism is dealt with.

Yes indeed it should be possible to create an over...

2012-02-05T09:53:57.146Z

Yes indeed it should be possible to create an overarching identity and as a committed federalist and European I'd be happy to see Cornwall alongside others stateless nations in a federation of a hundred flags. Lets dream! Why not an overarching sense of being a citizen of planet Earth.

The UK, as a product of the 19 centuary, is a state nolonger adapted to the challenges we face in the 21st. Over centralised and under democratised. Too big to give power to the people. Too small to tackle global issues. I don't see the UK and the various English and British identities it has foisted on the Cornish as being of any great advantage to Cornwall, its culture and identity.

The point you make in your third paragraph is enti...

2012-02-05T09:32:14.813Z

The point you make in your third paragraph is entirely valid - in fact, the immediate issue you raise in relation to drug abuse is something I recently had an opportunity to find out more about:

http://www.21stcenturyfix.org/2012/02/enemy-territory.html

The school system is clearly a massive factor in pigeon-holing people in the way you describe, and as I have pointed out:

"And I think, in a perfect world, where economic and political models operated finely, I'd find myself agreeing with the underlying thesis and mindset this section describes."

That is to say, I agree that in principle the "Big State" is not an answer.

Perhaps what we need more than a "Big State" is a "Big Agreement" - a consensual document of long-term intent designed to engender confidence and trust in our body politic on all sides so we can begin to engineer the necessary changes to make all kinds of structures in society the sort of structures which *don't* do what you describe in your comment.

Because we do have an issue with those who can see how large corporations work together to coordinate actions against a number of freedoms - ranging from copyrighting seed crops to effectively closing down the Internet. As I think my post does fairly point out, why *not* deal with "Big Capitalism" first? Or, at the very least, at the very same time?

What do you think?

I think, as you can see from my post, that I tend ...

2012-02-05T09:20:16.335Z

I think, as you can see from my post, that I tend to agree with you - but Matt makes some interesting points below which deserve to be taken seriously into account.

'After all, you can't defend the workforce...

2012-02-05T08:52:27.752Z

'After all, you can't defend the workforces of this world if you aren't at least half as big as your opponents. And there are many many companies out there doing things they shouldn't - and which are much bigger than entire nation states.'

Ok there are maybe a handful of companies that are as big as some small nation states in a meaningful sense, but there is not a single company in the world that is as big or as powerful as the British State in any way, which is surely the state that matters here. Obviously some companies are large and have power in meaningful ways, which can be harmful, but the state is even larger, has even more power and can often do even more harm.

I used to work with a lot of vulnerable people who were drug users and often ex-offenders - the big state's war on drugs and its power over them has often ruined their lives in a way that would be far beyond what any company could do. Often starting way back with an inflexible centralised school system that just didn't fit to their needs, all the way through the courts and prison system and finally to the benefits system, which is set up in such a bureaucratic and complex fashion that it makes it as difficult as possible for them to access it and often blocks them as much as helping them when they can access it.

erm oblication = obligation.

2012-02-04T18:42:25.310Z

erm oblication = obligation.

Very good post Mil; I have been thinking about the...

2012-02-04T18:22:00.825Z

Very good post Mil; I have been thinking about the role of the state for ages before reading Richard Murphy's book.

He makes great arguments *for* the power of the State; in both the policing of markets, to ensure "fair trade", and the provision of basic infrastructure that simply *will not be produced* by the private sector.

Just watch how corporations operate when there is no oblication to anyone for anything but just to create wealth, by fair or foul means (India, Africa).

Modern democracies and laws were developed to protect *everyone* from the evil motives of others; States are the only thing stopping a capitalism in its purest form from taking everything of value for us all for *their profit*.

It is only through recourse to *the Law*, provided by *the State*, that individuals can have *a chance* against Big Capitalism/Corporations.

Big Capitalism sees "States" as bodies that stop it *accumulating wealth*, which is its raison d'être.

Hi cornubian - thank you for your comment. I thin...

2012-02-04T17:07:08.605Z

Hi cornubian - thank you for your comment.

I think this is one of the biggest challenges around understanding identity. US identity, for example, has on occasions been quite crudely called a melting-pot - but where it best works is when it succeeds in recognising multiple cultures, and finds a way of allowing them to play off each other.

It must surely be possible to create an overarching nation-state identity which doesn't eliminate difference but, rather, makes it possible to take advantage of the productive upsides of the dissonance and cultural rub working and living with other ways of seeing and doing can generate.

After all, new ideas don't appear out of sameness. Our future on the planet will depend us being able to harness as well as define better this potentially thorny matter of identity.

The big three should indeed begin to tackle English identity before English identity tackles us all in ways we might not wish. And it should be possible for all of us who feel a need to be proud of our identities, whatever they are, to express them without shame or rancour. Just as it should be possible for those who don't wish to sign up to a shared identity to do the same with a similar sense of freedom.

Just as long as the debate about Englishness allow...

2012-02-04T13:26:05.263Z

Just as long as the debate about Englishness allows for the people who don't feel at all English. In Cornwall in a PLASC survey of kids ethnic identities 41% recorded themselves as Cornish rather than English or British. Fine the big three LibLabCon should tackle the English identity but not at the expense the Cornish national minority.

I'm just grateful you did share your experienc...

2012-02-01T19:35:19.220Z

I'm just grateful you did share your experiences. It's clarified a number of issues for me - and forced me to research a few more. I do hope you manage to achieve the outcome you deserve - and I do hope, by publicising such cases, we can between us make the whole process as humane as everyone deserves.

Thanks again.

Miljenko, Thank you for highlighting my personal ...

2012-02-01T19:27:34.963Z

Miljenko,

Thank you for highlighting my personal experiences in such an open and honest fashion.

I truly hope that my ramblings are of some comfort to those going through a similar process.

Further, I thank you for your own insightful thoughts on the problems faced when someone with a disability faces the Atos Work Capability Assessment.

As usual, you've managed to go to the very heart of the problem.

An inspired article for which I, and I'm sure many others, thank you.

Gary

21stCenturyFix.org

This is an unspoken reality? I think the various o...

So perhaps we need a worldwide organisation which ...

I know we are meant to like 'The International...

Hi Matt - sorry for the late response. I did writ...

Just clicked through to it now - seems to work OK....

That one published itself before I was finished!

The link to Daniel's post doesn't work, wh...

You are *talking* to the converted, not preaching....

Big Capitalism must accept that the State has a ro...

It's interesting you should mention the divisi...

It is clear to me that the UK is an out of date co...

Hi cornubian - Blogger defined that comment as spa...

I think I agree with you on many points, although ...

Yes indeed it should be possible to create an over...

The point you make in your third paragraph is enti...

I think, as you can see from my post, that I tend ...

'After all, you can't defend the workforce...

erm oblication = obligation.

Very good post Mil; I have been thinking about the...

Hi cornubian - thank you for your comment. I thin...

Just as long as the debate about Englishness allow...

I'm just grateful you did share your experienc...

Miljenko, Thank you for highlighting my personal ...

You are talking to the converted, not preaching....